Donilon: “What the Russians have done here needs to be condemned”
Today on a special edition of CNN’s State of the Union with Candy Crowley, Tom Donilon, distinguished fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations and former national security advisor to President Obama, also speaks about upheaval in Ukraine, as well as U.S. – Russia Relations.
A transcript of the interview is available after the jump.
TRANSCRIPT:
CROWLEY: I’m joined now by Tom Donilon. He is the former national security advisor to President Barack Obama. This certainly from afar looks like a real mess. You have basically a very weak government right now in Kiev still trying to get itself together after a coup of the elected president who’s fled to Russia.
You have an area of the Ukraine which is autonomous, as they say, an autonomous republic, that now has seen an increase in the number of Russian troops there, and it looks like this sort of global confrontation. This is what the president had to say Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Like what, for instance? What is the cost? Because, I think, we can say the Russians are in Crimea.
DONILON: Well, clearly. I mean, I think the facts are that the Russians have undertaken military intervention into Crimea. And they’ve done that in violation of international law.
They’ve done that in violation of their own obligations in the bilateral agreements they have with Ukraine, and they’ve done it as the ambassador reported out earlier today in violation of their own obligations in the wake of Ukraine’s becoming a sovereign country and giving up nuclear weapons. In 1994, I was involved in this, Russia committed to the territorial integrity —
CROWLEY: Who’s going to stop them?
DONILON: Well, it’s a difficult set of circumstances because of the confluence of history and demography and geopolitics. And this arose, of course, out of a rejection by the Ukrainian people of a decision by Yanukovych to move away from association with Europe and basically under severe financial pressure from the Russians to move towards a more close association with Russia. This was rejected by the Ukrainian people and Yanukovych is now gone.
Now, what can happen, is your question. Number one, what the Russians have done here needs to be condemned in the strongest terms because it is clearly a violation of international law. It should be condemned at the United Nations Security Council and a bunch of other FOR A (ph) as well. The Russians have a veto at the Security Council.
I still think it’s very important for the Security Council given the stakes here and given the tensions here and given the potential for conflict to step in and seek to condemn this and seek to demand deescalation. That’s the second thing.
CROWLEY: Which Russia as a permanent member is going to be tough.
DONILON: It could be — it will be. But I think it’s important to make the point there. And by the way, it is also to confront the Chinese on this principle of territorial integrity and sovereignty. But let me go on with what else I think happen. Two is that as the president did yesterday, the Russians need to be called upon to deescalate here. It’s not clear who they were acting to protect from some dire need here.
There’s no evidence I don’t think that I’ve seen that in fact that any Russian ethnic or any of the military personnel and other personnel that Russia has legitimately in Crimea were under threat. And if they had concerns, they could have directly (ph) Ukrainian people. Third, I do think it is important that the international community support fully the interim government in Kiev, both politically.
I would like to see foreign ministers, including, perhaps, Secretary Kerry and having talking about this to go (ph), support them financially, and I think the number of steps needed to be taken including stepping away from having the G-8 summit in Sochi this June.
CROWLEY: Really, how much influence does that have over Putin? I mean, this is a critical and a cultural place to which the Crimea, to which Russia has a huge attachment. So, saying, hey, we’re not going to the G-8 now, just seems to me like he’s going to go, yes, OK, this is more important to me. What moves Putin out of Crimea?
DONILON: Well — I think, first of all, he needs to be condemned and needs to be isolated on the issue of international —
(CROSSTALK)
DONILON: Secondly, I do think that it is significant, frankly, for there to be a suspension of participation by Russians in the G-8 and perhaps calling off the meeting this spring. I think there is significant.
But next, I do think it is important to continue to isolate them politically and perhaps economically and we should look at, Candy, if indeed there’s not deescalation here, and indeed, this is pushed closer to the brink, and indeed if you look at the history here, this has always been a potential flashpoint between Russia and the Ukraine — and the Crimea. But if there’s not de-escalation, I do think we should look at economic sanctions and pressure on Russia which can be significant. Russia’s economy right now is not in the strongest position. They need the EU markets very much and I do think economic pressure should be considered here.
CROWLEY: I want to read you a quote actually from the former National Intelligence officer for Russia and you raised (ph) at the NIC, the National Intelligence Council, who said in the “New York Times” Saturday, “We’ll talk about sanctions. We’ll talk about red lines. We’ll basically drive ourselves into a frenzy and he’ll,” — meaning Putin — “stand back and just watch it. He just knows that none of the rest of us want a war.”
And again, this is the idea to what gets to Putin, because he is, I read someplace, like 100 percent more interested in what happens in Crimea than any of the countries now saying this is terrible.
DONILON: Well, I think that’s fair. And indeed, again, this reflects I think a view on Putin’s part that in fact the Ukraine and the former soviet republics are truly not independent of Russian influence. And this, of course, is what was rejected in Kiev by the Ukrainian people.
This has been a blow to Putin in terms of their assertion of this influence, if you will, over Ukraine and doing everything they can to prevent Ukraine from associating more closely economically and other ways with Europe. And this was rejected. It’s a real blow to Putin and he’s reacting to that.
CROWLEY: Former national security adviser, Tom Donilon. We appreciate your coming when you’re in office and when you’re not. We really appreciate your insight. Thank you.
DONILON: Thank you.
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