Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren on John King, USA
CNN’s John King spoke with the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren about the bombing in Jerusalem and peace in the Middle East. This interview aired tonight on John King, USA – 7pm ET. A full transcript is after the jump.MANDATORY CREDIT: JOHN KING, USA
FULL TRANSCRIPT
THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, HOST, “JOHN KING USA”: Michael Oren is Israel’s ambassador to the United States and is with us live now.
First, our condolences today for the — to the…
MICHAEL OREN, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Thank you.
KING: What do you know about this and the investigation?
What happened?
OREN: Well, there was a suspicious object near the central bus station in Jerusalem. And a watchful store owner managed to call our equivalent of 911 and call it in. But the police couldn’t get there in time and it blew up. And 50 people wounded, a woman dead, a 59-year-old woman dead, as yet unidentified. No organization has claimed responsibility for it, but we’ve had a — a similar — we’ve had a — a terrorist attack just about a — over a week ago where an entire family was murdered, two parents, three young children, including an — an infant girl, were murdered in their homes. And a — and a terrorist organization actually affiliated with the Al-Fattah party that runs the Palestinian Authority claimed credit for it. And since last weekend, that’s the part of the country, about a million Israelis, have been hit by about 85 mortar shells and rockets from Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
KING: And so people look around the region and many people, especially in recent weeks, would see Tunisia, would see Egypt, a lot of questions about Libya, but would see, you know, anti-government, people in the streets expressing their rights and had hope for the region.
What about your particular small neighborhood in the region?
Are we going backward?
OREN: Well, we have hope for the region, too. We hope that — that we’ll be surrounded by democracies and they will be peace-loving democracies. But right now, as you know, there’s also the continuity in the region. We have Hezbollah in Lebanon pointing 50,000 rockets at us and Hamas in Gaza shooting rockets at us and — and no shortage of — of terrorist groups, many of them backing by Iran and Syria, who still want to destroy Israel and don’t want to negotiate with us.
So we have to be vigilant. We have to do whatever it takes to defend ourselves — and we will do, to defend ourselves. But we also can’t give up on peace.
KING: You — you make that point, defending yourself. And, you know, as I said, this is a sadly familiar story line about buses and bombs and in the city.
Another part of that story line over the years has been critics of Israel saying that the response is often disproportionate.
What will happen here?
OREN: Well, we — we are going to take whatever measures are necessary to defend ourselves against the Hamas rocket fire. You can’t have a million Israelis under rocket fire. Any country in the world would do whatever it needed to do to defend its country.
We are going to try to avoid inflicting civilian casualties. We’re going to try to get at the people who are shooting at our civilians. That’s what distinguishes us from them.
We are doing our utmost to avoid civilian casualties. They are doing their utmost to inflict the maximum number on our side. And if we do inflict civilian casualties, we feel very remorseful about it. We very much regret them. On their side, they — they celebrate them.
KING: If — there have been a lot of rumbling privately in recent weeks that your government is not happy with some of the positions the Obama administration has taken about all these changes, to this — in the sense that stability is what Israel prefers. And when you have all this uncertainty and Mubarak has to leave, what will happen with the peace treaty with Egypt?
Now you see these actions in Libya. Gadhafi no friend of Israel, by no means, but we don’t know what will come next.
Is there a sense that the administration does not have a broad strategic policy here?
OREN: I think it’s difficult to strategize about the entire region. Every country in the Middle East has — poses its own challenges and has its own dynamics. I guarantee you there’s nobody in the state of Israel who would like to see Moammar Gadhafi stay in office for another — for another minute, much less another day.
KING: You’ve got a great intelligence service in Israel.
Is there any indication that he’s actually trying to plot an exit strategy, as some have suggested in recent days, you know, phone calls from loyalists around to friends in the Arab world, saying, hey, what should I do here?
Any evidence that he is doing anything except being defiant?
OREN: Not that we know of. Not that we know of. But, again, we would not be in any way — would not regret his passing from — from the scene in the Middle East.
In Egypt, again, we would welcome the emergence of a — of a democracy in the Middle East. We’ve long said that we’re — we’ve been the only democracy in the Middle East and we’re proud of it, but we’d be happier still if we were surrounded by democracies, if they are committed to maintaining the peace.
KING: And when you — when you look around — now, well, let me ask you one more question about Libya before I move on.
There are many people who worry that if we get stalemate and the country is essentially partitioned and the opposition keeps Benghazi, maybe picks up another city or two in the east, Gadhafi keeps the west and Tripoli, that he will still have oil at some point. They — people think he will find his way around any sanctions.
Do you think, if Moammar Gadhafi is allowed to stay, that he would go back to being a sponsor of terrorism and that he would look to retaliate against those who are dropping bombs on this country right now?
OREN: I think there’s no underestimating the — the viciousness of Moammar Gadhafi. This is a person who has blown airplanes out of the sky. He’s been involved in assassinations. He’s — he’s shot at his own people. I think it would be a mistake to in any way underestimate the — his ability to — to murder, to take revenge, to be a danger not only to his neighboring countries, but to his own people.
KING: If that’s the case, then, would it be a failure if the end result of this coalition left Moammar Gadhafi in power?
OREN: No, I’m going to get into, you know, second-guessing the president of the United States about the outcome of this. This is an American initiative, an American policy. We are going to support President Obama and the administration and the allies of the United States and taking any measures that will, we believe, contribute to greater peace and stability in North Africa and throughout the Middle East.
KING: Are you comfortable, is Israel comfortable with the United States getting into the back seat, as described by the administration, in several days and letting the French and — and the Brits and perhaps the UAE will get involved, perhaps Qatar will be involved in some way?
Or would you prefer, as long as this is continuing, in your backyard, that the United States be in the lead?
OREN: I think that it’s a — it’s a difficult call for the president of the United States. Again, we’re not going to be in the business of dictating or giving our advice to him in this matter. I think it’s very important that the United States and its allies show a united front in — in standing up to tyranny and terror in the Middle East. And I think that sends a message to the enemies that we have in common, particularly the regime in Iran.
KING: But when you look — and it’s hard to answer the questions definitively — when you look at Bahrain and the protests, Yemen and the protests, Syria and protests, what is the biggest question Israel has?
Is it a question of is Iran winning here?
OREN: Well, we think that Iran thinks it’s winning here. We’ve noticed a — a major escalation in arms supplies that the Iranians have been sending to Hezbollah in Lebanon, to Hamas in the Gaza Strip. A couple weeks ago, we saw two Iranian warships go through the Suez Canal for the first time and take what amounted to a victory lap in the Eastern Mediterranean because Iran has essentially gained a major foothold in Lebanon, where a Hezbollah puppet government has taken over there.
And that has been a very important event, which has gone very much under the radar screen here in the United States.
KING: Under the radar screen including at the White House, or do you mean just in the American media?
OREN: No, the media has been less focused on it. It — it’s less visual than — than — than great demonstrations in Tahrir Square. But it is an event of — of historical importance and — and could be a very dangerous turning point in the Middle East.
So Iran, I think, believes right now that it — that it’s on a sort of a — a winning sort of role in the Middle East. It’s yet to be seen whether largely Arab populations will look to Iran, a Shiite country which has shot at its own civilians, that are — who are protesting for peace and democracy, as a — as any kind of model. Our hope is that they would not.
KING: Mr. Ambassador, thanks for coming in.
I wish it were under better circumstances.
But I hope you’ll come back as all this plays out and we’ll see what the ramifications for the region, including your country, is.
Thank you so much for coming in.
OREN: Thank you.