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February 25th, 2011
07:31 PM ET

Libyan Amb: Against Gadhafi, still Amb.

Libyan ambassador to the United States Ali Suleiman Aujali spoke with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer about Libyan leader Col. Moammar Gadhafi, the motive behind the bombing of American Pan Am 103 and more.  More information after the jump.

This interview aired on The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer during the 6 p.m. ET hour.


HIGHLIGHT TRANSCRIPT: Against Gadhafi, Still Ambassador

THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST:  But here in Washington we have an exclusive interview right now with the Libyan ambassador to the United States, Ali Suleiman Aujali. Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much for coming in.

ALI SULEIMAN AUJALI, LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.:  Thank you for inviting me.

BLITZER:  Are you with Gadhafi right now or against Gadhafi?

AUJALI:  I'm against Gadhafi.

BLITZER:  So are you still the Libyan ambassador to if United States?

AUJALI:  I'm still the Libyan ambassador to the United States.

BLITZER:  Are you flying the Gadhafi Libyan flag outside your embassy in Washington?

AUJALI:  In the embassy, it will be changed, but in the residency it is already changed.


HIGHLIGHT TRANSCRIPT: Brutality in Libya

THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST:  So that was your rational - rationalization because you were trying to help, even when you saw the brutality of the Gadhafi regime.

ALI SULEIMAN AUJALI, LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.:  But there's no way to stop this brutality.

BLITZER:  But there is a way now.

AUJALI:  There is way now.

BLITZER:  Why is it - what has changed?

AUJALI:  Yes, what change, I see the mass killing of our the people in Benghazi when to start the march for the freedom.  Then when I saw - see the mercenaries killing our people –

BLITZER:  The mercenaries.

AUJALI:  The mercenaries killing our peoples, and we see our womens are screaming in the street, and I see that there's no distinguish between who they are target, I can't take this one.


HIGHLIGHT TRANSCRIPT: Why Bombing of American Pan Am 103 Ordered

THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BLITZER:  So tell the viewers why Gadhafi, assuming you believe this, ordered the bombing of Pan Am 103?

AUJALI:  Oh, this I really don't know why he ordered it.  Maybe revenge against the United States.  I think this is the only reason maybe.

BLITZER:  You have no doubt that he wanted to blow up that American plane.

AUJALI:  Yes, yes.  I think as a revenge.

BLITZER:  As a revenge from what –

AUJALI:  From the United States.

BLITZER:  - from was done to Libya, some of the attacks that –?

AUJALI:  That's right.  From the attack of '86, you know, against Libya.

BLITZER:  So this is his way of getting back.

AUJALI:  Yes, of course.


FULL TRANSCRIPT

THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST:  But here in Washington we have an exclusive interview right now with the Libyan ambassador to the United States, Ali Suleiman Aujali. Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much for coming in.

ALI SULEIMAN AUJALI, LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.:  Thank you for inviting me.

BLITZER:  Are you with Gadhafi right now or against Gadhafi?

AUJALI:  I'm against Gadhafi.

BLITZER:  So are you still the Libyan ambassador to if United States?

AUJALI:  I'm still the Libyan ambassador to the United States.

BLITZER:  Are you flying the Gadhafi Libyan flag outside your embassy in Washington?

AUJALI:  In the embassy, it will be changed, but in the residency it is already changed.

BLITZER:  The residence, you're flying the old flag of Libya –

AUJALI:  Yes, the flag.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER:  - which the opposition - all right, so tell our viewers here in the United States and around the world why you broke with Gadhafi, a man you served for many years?

AUJALI:  Yes.  Well, I served this regime about 40 years.

BLITZER:  Forty years, and that's as long as Gadhafi has been in power.

AUJALI:  Which is a long time.  That's right.

BLITZER:  So he was your boss all of these years?

AUJALI:  Yes, that's right.  I joined the full service in January '69. And then we tried, since we joined the full service, to do our best to serve our people, to try to bring Libya as mother and state.  And there are so many instances which nobody is accepted.

BLITZER:  But you now realize he was brutal all those 40 years to his own people?

AUJALI:  Yes, it is true.  But we try very hard that if we have some good people holding position, then at least we can function and we can –

BLITZER:  So that was your rational - rationalization because you were trying to help, even when you saw the brutality of the Gadhafi regime.

AUJALI:  But there's no way to stop this brutality.

BLITZER:  But there is a way now.

AUJALI:  There is way now.

BLITZER:  Why is it - what has changed?

AUJALI:  Yes, what change, I see the mass killing of our the people in Benghazi when to start the march for the freedom.  Then when I saw - see the mercenaries killing our people –

BLITZER:  The mercenaries.

AUJALI:  The mercenaries killing our peoples, and we see our womens are screaming in the street, and I see that there's no distinguish between who they are target, I can't take this one.

BLITZER:  All - all of the diplomats at the Libyan embassy now here in Washington are with you, or are some of them with Gadhafi?

AUJALI:  There will no - there is no one with Gadhafi at the moment.

BLITZER:  None of them?

AUJALI:  None of them.  And - and the resignation among the Libyan diplomat is all over the world.

BLITZER:  So tell us what you're hearing right now.  How brutal is the situation in Tripoli and elsewhere?  We know that - that the other - the Eastern part of the country has been liberated.

AUJALI:  Yes.  Well, the problem now it is western part.  The problem now is Tripoli.  People there march to Tripoli, but unfortunately they've been confront with mercenaries.  Can you imagine that when the people marched through Tripoli

BLITZER:  When you say mercenaries, these are foreigners who are hired by Gadhafi –

AUJALI:  Yes.

BLITZER:  - to kill people basically.

AUJALI:  Yes, that's what happening.

BLITZER:  What about Libyan soldiers?  Are - Libyan police?  Are they doing the same thing?

AUJALI:  What I think - not the Libyan police.  No, many of them, they're turning against him.  But the problem, you see, the brutality of that, when the demonstration marched through Tripoli, some of them they've been injured and they call the ambulance to - to save them.

And when they up and be (ph) ambulance, then mercenaries, they came out and shoot the people just in the middle of the demonstration.

BLITZER:  And this is going on right now?

AUJALI:  It is going on.  It is a mass - it –

BLITZER:  Are you talking to people in Tripoli right now?

AUJALI:  I call - somebody call me actually from Tripoli just about one hour and a half.

BLITZER:  And what did he - what did they say?

AUJALI:  Yes.  He - well, of course, he told me that we are with you. They are supporting my decision.  And ask him how thing is, he told me things is very bad, things very serious.  And I told him, please be careful that you are speaking to me and maybe you will be in trouble.

He told me, doesn't matter.

BLITZER:  Because you were afraid he was being listened to on the phone.

AUJALI:  Of course, of course. I told him, be careful.  Said, no, no, it doesn't matter now.  Everybody is fight.  Everybody is declaring his position.  Now we are marching for the freedom.

BLITZER:  I assume you have family members in Libya right now.

AUJALI:  Yes, this is - we have family.  I have family in Libya, of course.  And - nut now everybody is ready to sacrifice for the country.

BLITZER:  So you must be worried about your family?

AUJALI:  Well, I mean, I'm ready to die here for my cause.

BLITZER:  When you say you're ready to die, you think somebody is going to come in Washington and kill you?

AUJALI:  Well, I - to be honest with you, I'm not frighten of anything.

BLITZER:  You're not what?

AUJALI:  I'm not frighten of anything.  I'm not frighten.  My goal is my people to achieve their freedom.  My second cause - my first priority, this killing, mass killing have to stop immediately.  The international community, they have to stop, they have to do something.  The flying zone - their un-flying zone is very important.  This man, he has aircrafts.  He killed without distinguish anybody.  He will destroy the country.  He said, I rule you or I kill you.  That's the philosophy.

BLITZER:  So what can the world do now to help the people of Libya?

AUJALI:  Well, I think now I'm very happy that the world are moving seriously.

BLITZER:  Sanctions are not going to do anything.

AUJALI:  Sanctions doesn't work, and we don't want sanction.

BLITZER:  What do you want?

AUJALI:  We suffer with the sanction.  The economic sanction doesn't - doesn't help (ph).

BLITZER:  So what should the international community, including the United States do?

AUJALI:  The international - yes.  No flying zone, this is the first one.

BLITZER:  But you realize that the Libyans have a strong anti-aircraft defense system, missile - anti-aircraft missile defense system.  You have to bomb all of that first in order to control the skies.

AUJALI:  No, no, the international community, they know how to deal - how to deal with - with –

BLITZER:  So you want the United States to take the lead?

AUJALI:  I want the international community to take the lead, and I want the participation of countries who release –

BLITZER:  Cause the only ones who can do this are the U.S. and NATO.

AUJALI:  Yes.  As far as –

BLITZER:  You don't think the Arab world is going to do this?

AUJALI:  No, no.  There is no Arab world, they can do nothing (INAUDIBLE).

BLITZER:  So it's the U.S. and NATO –

AUJALI:  Yes.

BLITZER:  - basically, that could impose a no-fly zone.

AUJALI:  Yes, that's what we want.  And the second thing –

BLITZER:  Have you ask the White House, the State Department for this?

AUJALI:  I haven't met with the White House yet, but I think the State Department there know it very well and I've discussed with them –

BLITZER:  And what did they say to you?

AUJALI:  Well, I'm - I'm optimistic.

BLITZER:  What else besides a no-fly zone?

AUJALI:  What beside - I think sanctions against the people.  We have to freeze –

BLITZER:  Which people?

AUJALI:  The figure of the regime.

BLITZER:  Gadhafi and his sons.

AUJALI:  Gadhafi, his family and there are some figures, some officers who are leading now this - the killing, the mass killing in Libya.

BLITZER:  When Gadhafi says - excuse me for interrupting.

AUJALI:  Yes.

BLITZER:  I'm dread to die, I'm going to be a martyr, I'm not leaving Libya.  You've known him for 40 years.

AUJALI:  Yes.

BLITZER:  You worked for him for 40 years.

AUJALI:  Yes.

BLITZER:  Is he - does he mean it?  Is he really determined to stay and die in Libya, or will he run away?

AUJALI:  Well, I think he's a very stubborn person, you know.  I believe that maybe he commits suicide or maybe he killed by one of his –

BLITZER:  You think he would commit suicide?

AUJALI:  - security or maybe he has some places where he can hide for some time. But our priority that to stop killing.  Second thing that he must step down.  There is no way for Libya to gain their freedom, to gain their hub (ph) if he's still around.  No way.

BLITZER:  Gadhafi and his sons and his immediate family, Saif al Islam Gadhafi , we saw the pictures of him, his other - how much money have they stolen from the Libyan people?

AUJALI:  well, the first report that I heard yesterday that Gadhafi has assets and cash money about 30 billion euro.

BLITZER:  Thirty billion?

AUJALI:  Thirty billion euro.

BLITZER:  Where is that money?

AUJALI:  He - I don't know.  I think this is only United Kingdom.

BLITZER:  In the U.K.?

AUJALI:  Yes, in U.K.

BLITZER:  Thirty billion.  But you think he has more than that?

AUJALI:  Of course.  He has about six children, every one of them has a fortune.  Every one of them, they are running a very important business in the country.  They monopoly the most important business in Libya and they make money.

BLITZER:  You're free to speak now.  You've said everybody bad about Gadhafi.

AUJALI:  I breathe now.  I breathe the freedom.

BLITZER:  You can say whatever you want.

AUJALI:  Yes.  Yes.

BLITZER:  So tell the viewers why Gadhafi, assuming you believe this, ordered the bombing of Pan Am 103?

AUJALI:  Oh, this I really don't know why he ordered it.  Maybe revenge against the United States.  I think this is the only reason maybe.

BLITZER:  You have no doubt that he wanted to blow up that American plane.

AUJALI:  Yes, yes.  I think as a revenge.

BLITZER:  As a revenge from what –

AUJALI:  From the United States.

BLITZER:  - from was done to Libya, some of the attacks that –?

AUJALI:  That's right.  From the attack of '86, you know, against Libya.

BLITZER:  So this is his way of getting back.

AUJALI:  Yes, of course.

BLITZER:  What's your biggest regret?  Now that you're free and you can say whatever you want, over the past 40 years, what would you have done differently if you could have?

AUJALI:  Well, I think resigning from the - from the serving the government doesn't really make sense.  But now I wait until the right moment.  Now I have made a lot of changes.  When I stand up in the right moment - minute or right moment that I can really make a difference, and this is what happen.  When the Libyan ambassador to United States comes out and spoke against his regime, this is a great achievement, I believe, in my career.

BLITZER:  And we thank you for coming here to THE SITUATION ROOM.

AUJALI:  Thank you.

BLITZER:  Good luck to you, your family, to all the people of Libya.

AUJALI:  Thank you.

BLITZER:  Is there any final thought you want to make.

AUJALI:  We need your support.  We need the media to take the Libyan case every day until this regime steps down, until he gone up - he gone.

BLITZER:  Is it a matter of days, you think, for Gadhafi?

AUJALI:  I hope it is very, very, very, very soon.  And I think - I'm sure it's very close.

BLITZER:  Would you want him dead?

AUJALI:  I want him to be out of my country.  I want him to be out of the Libyan life.  I want the Libyan to gain their dignity, to gain their inspiration, to be proud of the country that they are Libyans.  That's what I want.  Dead or alive doesn't matter, but we want him out of our life.

BLITZER:  Ali Suleiman Aujali, Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much for coming.  Good luck.

AUJALI:  Thank you very much.

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